Jon, you make the case brilliantly. Sharing with others. Not a widespread perspective thus far, I’d say, but you make the case exquisitely. You’re right up there with Lucien Truscott IV and the like… It comes about that when you see a certain name, you take the time to read. Yours is one of those. Thank you for this.
Long ago, I heard a sermon on a radio station I won’t name because I certainly wouldn’t listen to it now anyway, one pastor spoke of perhaps even a book that contained a collection of stories where something changed the course of history based on the actions, the choice, the decision of just one person. Never underestimate. It’s like the value of a penny. I despise people, and you may not agree with this, who belittle the penny. I think I’ve heard that it costs more to produce them than the value they carry once they’re in circulation. But anyway… Look how Bob Marley had a cancer in one toe and ignored it… In the end it took his life. One bite from some certain being can take your life. Taking your eyes off the road for a moment or a blown tire… BOOM!… Life altering if not life ending.
Many things, even like miracles, I don’t think can be measured, have value attached, because what seems tiny can turn out to be monumental. What seems hugely consequential can later prove itself forgettable, of no effect at all…
Anyway. Thank you. Explaining yourself. I do that too much of the time. I guess it resonates. Thank you, Jon.
Well done Jon. I'm a little on both sides here as I'd very much like to see Felon47 out of the White House but see little chance of the 25th Amendment being the tool. It might be a valuable piece of electioneering, but I'm not sure how seriously people take anyone's assertions about Presidential inadequacy any more.
In respect of Mr. Lehrer's comment "the transfer of power would give Vance a huge leg up for the 2028 campaign, as he would run as the sitting president.", while it is true, if the transition is done before the halfway point of this term, Juvenile Delinquent would be limited to one potential term after his succession.
The whole situation has deteriorated past the point of ludicrousness, and I suspect that Tom Cleaver's hamberder solution is our most likely ally.
No one thinks the 25th will be invoked. The point is to use it as a club, and keep hitting the Republicans over the head with it, because all responsible people know that it SHOULD be invoked.
I acknowledge, in the interest of full disclosure and otherwise, that Jon and I were law school classmates. And while it is true that our law school time was "back in the days of stand-up desks and long black gowns," it is not true that quill pens were in use. Indeed, I typed my law school examinations on an electric typewriter. The examination room was very very noisy.
Jon and I were indeed not only law school classmates, but friends back then. Permitting me to say, as I have in a few of my previous comments and accurately, that I knew Jon when he was a young curmudgeon. This was some 55 years before he became the Old Curmudgeon, and I became one of his first subscribers.
Anyhow, as I have stated in most of the comments I have offered to the Old Curmudgeon columns, including the column to which my 25th amendment comment was appended, I think the column is consistently well done. In that context, my 25th amendment comment, about Jon's ritualistic plea for invocation of the 25th amendment (the subject matter of the column in question was something quite different) was a quibble more or less, making it an honor of sort that Jon devoted a whole column to my quibble. Thus, in my internet and email exchanges, particularly among my college classmates on our class listserv, most folks don't pay much attention to my main points, much less my quibbles.
Turning to the merits of my comment, Jon agrees with part of what I said, which is "that here is no chance whatsoever, given its triggering mechanism, that the 25th amendment will ever successfully be invoked against Trump." Indeed, he nicely elaborates on my point, by offering this winning and accurate prediction. "Indeed, if he were to keel over from a stroke in the press room yet still be breathing, there would still be a fair degree of likelihood that Vance and the cabinet would ignore it and continue to pretend that he’s in charge.* That is a measure of how far downhill our constitutional democracy has slid."
I also opined, however, that, in light of the impossibility of the 25th amendment being successfully invoked, based on The Wicked Man's mental incompetence, it would be a " waste time and energy" to remind one's representatives of that incompetence and that it should trigger application of the 25th amendment, especially when, as in my case, my congressional representative is a hard line Trumper. Jon's response to that point is layered, but his main point is the following.
"Will it be worth the couple of minutes (literally) that it will take to call your representative or senator and tell them to call for invoking the 25th? Even if yours are deep-red, yes. At the least, it will remind them that we are out here, watching. It will cause at least a tiny tremor of doubt, and such feelings can grow. ***
The larger purpose is to make Trump’s mental state into a live issue. Strangely, it is not. ***. The American people ought to be discussing the president’s mental state. It should be top-of-mind for all of us, every day."
One thing I learned in my first few years of legal practice (like Jon, mainly in a few variants of plaintiffs' civil rights litigation) is something The Wicked Man has never learned and never will. (That something is not his worst personal failing. That would be his mental incompetence and that he suffers from at least two personality disorders, narcissistic personality disorder and anti-social personality disorder, within the meaning of the DSM-V). What I learned is that when errs in fact or in judgment, one should take any opportunity that there is to acknowledge the error. I do so here. Jon is correct to urge his readers to press their congressional representatives (even the hard line Trumpers), to plead for invocation of the 25th amendment, in order to remove The Wicked Man from office.
I think we need some snappy one liners that the public can embrace. And from your posting, I think the chant "take away his car keys" could be a good one
Maybe I’ll put that on a sign for Monday. I’m near Stanford doing the 17×17 K event, 17 miles with 17,000 people stretched from Redwood City through Sunnyvale. In May, we did 7X7K, from Palo Alto to Sunnyvale, 7 miles with 7000 people except in the end 10,000 people showed up. Labor Day, Monday… Here we come!
We also need a simple visual for silent protestors. Like encouraging people to wear stripes, in everyday life, to signal their view that he should be behind bars. And an association between blue t-shirts of any hue and a disdain for Trump. Curious about your thoughts. 10,000 people in stripes or in blue t-shirts would be very effective.
Sorry Jon, I'm with the other Bob on this one. While your reasoning is sound, as you admitted, there's no way pmurT's "Tool" Cabinet will ever invoke 25A. Everybody knows that, so I think it's senseless to call for it.
I'd much prefer to put our efforts into an overwhelming sweep of the House and Senate in 2026, and teeing up his removal by impeachment (his 3rd) and conviction & removal. His much smarter and anti-charismatic successor, JD "Irrele"Vance, will be chastened enough by it to take a different path.
So I think we should be talking about pmurT's third and final impeachment, coming to a theater near you in January 2027.
I'm not sure I made myself clear. Of course Vance and the others--and Republicans in Congress--will ignore Trump's disabilities as long as they can. My purpose is to tax them with that, to get people thinking and talking about it, and to have it as a potent political issue next year, and (I hope not) maybe all the way to 2028. This might be an "emperor's new clothes" moment.
No, I think you were very clear. I just think clamoring for invocation of 25A is something the GOP and pmurT can easily smack down. Impeachment is doable, but only if we have the House and at least a Senate with a badly wounded GOP.
I think there's a chance to motivate voters by saying that the path to stopping the dictatorship and thwarting the destructiveness being wrought by him, his "Tool" Cabinet, and his toadies in Congress, is to put Congress in the hands of responsible adults.
The Supremes can't be stopped right now, but by controlling the Senate, they can be kept from lurching further to the right for any vacancies after the majority changes. That's another point to rally around - stopping pmurT from adding more of his disciples to the Court.
Jon, you make the case brilliantly. Sharing with others. Not a widespread perspective thus far, I’d say, but you make the case exquisitely. You’re right up there with Lucien Truscott IV and the like… It comes about that when you see a certain name, you take the time to read. Yours is one of those. Thank you for this.
Long ago, I heard a sermon on a radio station I won’t name because I certainly wouldn’t listen to it now anyway, one pastor spoke of perhaps even a book that contained a collection of stories where something changed the course of history based on the actions, the choice, the decision of just one person. Never underestimate. It’s like the value of a penny. I despise people, and you may not agree with this, who belittle the penny. I think I’ve heard that it costs more to produce them than the value they carry once they’re in circulation. But anyway… Look how Bob Marley had a cancer in one toe and ignored it… In the end it took his life. One bite from some certain being can take your life. Taking your eyes off the road for a moment or a blown tire… BOOM!… Life altering if not life ending.
Many things, even like miracles, I don’t think can be measured, have value attached, because what seems tiny can turn out to be monumental. What seems hugely consequential can later prove itself forgettable, of no effect at all…
Anyway. Thank you. Explaining yourself. I do that too much of the time. I guess it resonates. Thank you, Jon.
Well done Jon. I'm a little on both sides here as I'd very much like to see Felon47 out of the White House but see little chance of the 25th Amendment being the tool. It might be a valuable piece of electioneering, but I'm not sure how seriously people take anyone's assertions about Presidential inadequacy any more.
In respect of Mr. Lehrer's comment "the transfer of power would give Vance a huge leg up for the 2028 campaign, as he would run as the sitting president.", while it is true, if the transition is done before the halfway point of this term, Juvenile Delinquent would be limited to one potential term after his succession.
The whole situation has deteriorated past the point of ludicrousness, and I suspect that Tom Cleaver's hamberder solution is our most likely ally.
No one thinks the 25th will be invoked. The point is to use it as a club, and keep hitting the Republicans over the head with it, because all responsible people know that it SHOULD be invoked.
I acknowledge, in the interest of full disclosure and otherwise, that Jon and I were law school classmates. And while it is true that our law school time was "back in the days of stand-up desks and long black gowns," it is not true that quill pens were in use. Indeed, I typed my law school examinations on an electric typewriter. The examination room was very very noisy.
Jon and I were indeed not only law school classmates, but friends back then. Permitting me to say, as I have in a few of my previous comments and accurately, that I knew Jon when he was a young curmudgeon. This was some 55 years before he became the Old Curmudgeon, and I became one of his first subscribers.
Anyhow, as I have stated in most of the comments I have offered to the Old Curmudgeon columns, including the column to which my 25th amendment comment was appended, I think the column is consistently well done. In that context, my 25th amendment comment, about Jon's ritualistic plea for invocation of the 25th amendment (the subject matter of the column in question was something quite different) was a quibble more or less, making it an honor of sort that Jon devoted a whole column to my quibble. Thus, in my internet and email exchanges, particularly among my college classmates on our class listserv, most folks don't pay much attention to my main points, much less my quibbles.
Turning to the merits of my comment, Jon agrees with part of what I said, which is "that here is no chance whatsoever, given its triggering mechanism, that the 25th amendment will ever successfully be invoked against Trump." Indeed, he nicely elaborates on my point, by offering this winning and accurate prediction. "Indeed, if he were to keel over from a stroke in the press room yet still be breathing, there would still be a fair degree of likelihood that Vance and the cabinet would ignore it and continue to pretend that he’s in charge.* That is a measure of how far downhill our constitutional democracy has slid."
I also opined, however, that, in light of the impossibility of the 25th amendment being successfully invoked, based on The Wicked Man's mental incompetence, it would be a " waste time and energy" to remind one's representatives of that incompetence and that it should trigger application of the 25th amendment, especially when, as in my case, my congressional representative is a hard line Trumper. Jon's response to that point is layered, but his main point is the following.
"Will it be worth the couple of minutes (literally) that it will take to call your representative or senator and tell them to call for invoking the 25th? Even if yours are deep-red, yes. At the least, it will remind them that we are out here, watching. It will cause at least a tiny tremor of doubt, and such feelings can grow. ***
The larger purpose is to make Trump’s mental state into a live issue. Strangely, it is not. ***. The American people ought to be discussing the president’s mental state. It should be top-of-mind for all of us, every day."
One thing I learned in my first few years of legal practice (like Jon, mainly in a few variants of plaintiffs' civil rights litigation) is something The Wicked Man has never learned and never will. (That something is not his worst personal failing. That would be his mental incompetence and that he suffers from at least two personality disorders, narcissistic personality disorder and anti-social personality disorder, within the meaning of the DSM-V). What I learned is that when errs in fact or in judgment, one should take any opportunity that there is to acknowledge the error. I do so here. Jon is correct to urge his readers to press their congressional representatives (even the hard line Trumpers), to plead for invocation of the 25th amendment, in order to remove The Wicked Man from office.
Best regards to all.
I feel guilty about "liking" this comment, but I'll suppress the feeling.
Jon, guilt comes with the territory—we both know that. Thanks for the ‘like,’ guilt and all.
I think we need some snappy one liners that the public can embrace. And from your posting, I think the chant "take away his car keys" could be a good one
Brilliant!
Maybe I’ll put that on a sign for Monday. I’m near Stanford doing the 17×17 K event, 17 miles with 17,000 people stretched from Redwood City through Sunnyvale. In May, we did 7X7K, from Palo Alto to Sunnyvale, 7 miles with 7000 people except in the end 10,000 people showed up. Labor Day, Monday… Here we come!
We also need a simple visual for silent protestors. Like encouraging people to wear stripes, in everyday life, to signal their view that he should be behind bars. And an association between blue t-shirts of any hue and a disdain for Trump. Curious about your thoughts. 10,000 people in stripes or in blue t-shirts would be very effective.
Clearly, you have a good knack for this. How best to amplify…? My antennae are alert - wow, you have set my mind racing! Lights! Camera! Action!
Sorry Jon, I'm with the other Bob on this one. While your reasoning is sound, as you admitted, there's no way pmurT's "Tool" Cabinet will ever invoke 25A. Everybody knows that, so I think it's senseless to call for it.
I'd much prefer to put our efforts into an overwhelming sweep of the House and Senate in 2026, and teeing up his removal by impeachment (his 3rd) and conviction & removal. His much smarter and anti-charismatic successor, JD "Irrele"Vance, will be chastened enough by it to take a different path.
So I think we should be talking about pmurT's third and final impeachment, coming to a theater near you in January 2027.
I'm not sure I made myself clear. Of course Vance and the others--and Republicans in Congress--will ignore Trump's disabilities as long as they can. My purpose is to tax them with that, to get people thinking and talking about it, and to have it as a potent political issue next year, and (I hope not) maybe all the way to 2028. This might be an "emperor's new clothes" moment.
No, I think you were very clear. I just think clamoring for invocation of 25A is something the GOP and pmurT can easily smack down. Impeachment is doable, but only if we have the House and at least a Senate with a badly wounded GOP.
I think there's a chance to motivate voters by saying that the path to stopping the dictatorship and thwarting the destructiveness being wrought by him, his "Tool" Cabinet, and his toadies in Congress, is to put Congress in the hands of responsible adults.
The Supremes can't be stopped right now, but by controlling the Senate, they can be kept from lurching further to the right for any vacancies after the majority changes. That's another point to rally around - stopping pmurT from adding more of his disciples to the Court.
This is a healthy discussion. Thanks.